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Post by greentea on May 20, 2019 3:43:35 GMT 1
BYOND Key: GreenTea98 Complaining Against: Falaskian Time of Incident (GMT+1): 3:15 AM Explanation: I was simply getting cloned after spectating someone for a while, they were an IC friend cloning a bunch of people so I said something along the lines of "That took a while, I was thinking you'd forgotten about me", and Falaskian starts bwoinking me about it. I thought they were joking at first because surely no one would think something as little as a single phrase as "Acting on dead information", but apparently making a joke about something this minor is a rulebreak big enough to bwoink me over. Besides, when you die, it gives you an IC message saying when you died. I'd been recloned like, 3 times because of cloning running out of power, so I would have remembered the time between all of my deaths, aswell the fact that there's a bunch of status monitors around always telling the time. It was nothing but a joke between friends, but he took it a mile farther than he had to. I think administrating with such tight restrictions on things like making a joke without even thinking about it, is an issue. It's like reverse rule lawyering, enforcing them in certain ways to a stupid degree that something as simple as a phrase that has no effect on anything or anyone, is considered a rule break. Had I used the information of knowing people were antags and lings, that would have been a rule break, but I literally said one thing that revealed no information to anyone and didn't do anything whatsoever. I've got nothing wrong with listening to admins, but when they act like this over what is literally nothing, it's frustrating, and people that want to powerflex like this just shouldn't be in any form of authority. Evidence: prnt.sc/nqqg23 http://prntscr.com/nqqieh http://prntscr.com/nqqii6 http://prntscr.com/nqqim6
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Post by greentea on May 22, 2019 23:54:50 GMT 1
Edit, there's now a like, 80% Chance he's metagaming me, because that's what it really feels like. I was a blood brother with someone else, even if they got called in for the rats in the kitchen, there's no reason the ERT should have randomly been searching engie maint for blood trails. Conveniently, the two people we did kill just happened to be the ones to arrest us. How is this not a using previous life memory rulebreak? prntscr.com/ns3v41 Supposedly, they were called because we were killing too many people with no shuttle, but we literally just killed our target and one guy who saw us while the shuttle was 2 minutes away. Then, he changes the story and says that he called it because alot of people were dead. prntscr.com/ns3vnyHe went out of his way to call an ERT and metagamed me, or atleast is being oblivious to the fact that they're breaking the previous life memory rule. Also, this was the closest thing to a response I got when asked if they were metagaming or not. I asked, but all I got was this as a response. prntscr.com/ns3wc0The round was 4959
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Post by greentea on May 23, 2019 0:22:19 GMT 1
Another edit, immediately the next round, half the station is blown up and no ERT is anywhere in sight. This round went on for a fat while with two people dead, the same amount we killed, and no ERT was summoned to magically smite the traitors. Hmm, what handy inconsistency!
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Post by Killing Torcher on May 23, 2019 16:46:01 GMT 1
Your complaint is being reviewed.
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Post by luckyrichard on May 23, 2019 17:42:26 GMT 1
Greentea98 I was the Medical ERT Sent to assist and help the crew we followed the looong Blood trail you left going up into dorms down into maint by the chapel found a bag filled with guns and a ID Along with several over Captains items we searched maint found a Corpse took it to the detectives office scanned it for prints and found Traces of insulated gloves which then once we got onto the shuttle we notice you and the over blood brother and decided to bag you and tag you which lead us to finding one of you had a captains card so we decided it would be best to hold you both till the shuttle arrived at the station for a trial and what not.
And before you start screaming Meta Info you left sooo many clues blood trails everywhere all around that area which was the original reason for us searching there the only reason we found out was because of the incompetence you displayed with covering up evidence you failed to rid of the body properly left a literal stack of gear and equipment laying around that could only be gathered from the caps office if you had been more careful I'e Cleaning up the blood hiding the body ANYWHERE BUT THE SAME LOCATION JUST A FIVE SECOND WALK AWAY You would of likely gotten away Scot free.
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Post by greentea on May 23, 2019 20:43:45 GMT 1
Cool, glad SOMEONE finally gave me a clear answer, but I'm still confused why the ERT was even called? They said it was because "around half the crew was dead" and "that's when they usually call it", but with no IC reason to, and with us killing only our target and some guy who'd seen us, then the other reason, "When antags murderbone", we killed our target and someone who'd seen us. The only other IC issues that I'm aware of were rats that, as far as I'm certain, were also admin spawned, and hadn't even killed anyone. So, maybe I could get some more answers instead of "you got rekt deal with it"?
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Post by luckyrichard on May 23, 2019 21:42:40 GMT 1
Greentea Just because someone didn't see you theres many many overs way to figure out someones the reason for murder we use the Detective Analyzer to find traces of Glove prints on the corpse there are also different methods such as clonning the victim and asking them (This wasen't the case for this one but you get the idea) It is also likely there are more antags instead of just you someone was likely killing crew silently the entire time so it wasen't just you.
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Post by luckyrichard on May 23, 2019 22:06:23 GMT 1
You should also note Admins got AFK All the time and can't always spawn ERTS When it's needed
Sometimes people just don't want to be ERT's or there isn't enough players to fill one in case and point with the round after that one my guess is that he either went offline or AFK To playsomething else this is actually a pretty common occurence from what i've heared and sometimes they just don't know theres a need for one my guess is that Fal was offline at the time or busy
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Post by greentea on May 23, 2019 23:43:22 GMT 1
Anyway, if they supposedly call them around 50% Dead, once again here's another round where the station explodes 24/7 and there's two lings killing everyone, Survival rate of 39% shown here prntscr.com/nsjq1bSo, 39% VS two people, one of which is a target? It was an hour and a half long round, so it's not like they were AFK that entire time, right? Then, the next round, the AI's rogue with one kill target, they die basically roundstart but they activate the deathinator anyways prntscr.com/nsko36Where's the ERT then? No one had the access or the materials to combat an AI
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Post by gblue on May 25, 2019 5:01:51 GMT 1
To begin with where this issues start at, shortly after being cloned you said "I wasss beginning to think you WEREN'T GONNA CLONE MEAA" to your IC friend.
This statement was read and interpreted by Falaskian as violating Rule #6 (...using knowledge gained as a ghost or knowledge gained as a previous character.) based on an observation that you were hanging around your IC friend as a ghost for some time before they were finally able to clone you, prompting a connection that what you said was linked to that experience as a ghost.
I'd like to clarify before continuing that being PM'd (Bwoinked) over something does not guarantee you're going to be hit with the banhammer, the case here was to notify you that your actions were against the rules and your only punishment for this was being noted. It may seem a bit much to elevate a bit of OOC in IC into an admin ticket, yet that kind of discretion remains in the hands of admins. Attempting to dismiss or argue against the issue for personal disagreements on rule enforcement policy is better taken up as a separate discussion rather than when in the middle of being messaged.
On the matter ERT potentially using ghost or other life knowledge, LuckyRichard has shared their account of the events and trail of evidence leading up to how they found and arrested you. That ERT was sent in by Degeneral with the mission of "Repair the station and assist crew in evacuation" due to an event they were doing with rats in the kitchen and the station's current death toll.
For the following lack of ERT in the following round and ERT usage in general, a lot of it really is just admin discretion. In this case however Degeneral had been attempting to send in a Nuke-Ops team presumably to end the round quickly, I'm told that the team may have failed to get enough players signing up for it. It also appears Degeneral was interested in sending an ERT close to the end of that round (Though no logs were seen showing an attempt to create said ERT).
The general agreement for conditions where ERT use is fully acceptable are situations when a significant amount of station crew are dead (anywhere near 50% sounds fine) and the station is very unlikely to recover or survive on its own, regardless however just because the station is in peril does not always guarantee an ERT will be sent in, only that it would be justified to do so.
ERT mission objectives are usually just influenced by the sending of station messages to Centcom involving their situation (e.g. Traitor insulting Centcom/Request for help to deal with changelings/xenos/murderboning traitors, etc.) usually resulting in a more specific objective instead of just vague information like half the crew life-signs being gone and told to go investigate and deal with the cause of it.
At present however I have found no clear indication of wrongdoing or significant misconduct by Falaskian while investigating this case. I would still ask however that both sides monitor their behavior in the future, as better communication may have led to a better outcome.
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