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Post by traitorbotanist on May 4, 2019 1:24:32 GMT 1
BYOND Key: TraitorBotanist
Complaining Against: Killing Torcher
Time of Incident (GMT+1): 1AM (8PM CST)
Explanation: See chief engineer inside captains office , we have no security this round - i disable him and handcuff bring to brig and ask why he was in there, he stalls long enough to ahelp then i get bwoinked waste time dealing with this 'game master' we both miss shuttle and the CE is begging me to kill him while insulting me(assuming to try to get me in trouble for murder boning) admin claims i held him in the brig for 5 minutes but there's absolutely no fucking way i promise you. He claims he read logs or something and it was 5 minutes but i have the logs there's no way between me handcuffing and the bwoink that was 5 minutes, it was 2 minutes TOPS of me asking the question and him stalling. All i did was ask the CE a question because we had no security that round and he was in the captains office alone messing with shit, i didn't use lethal force i literally asked him a question and got harassed by this admin for about 10 minutes. I tell him i understand it's his job to bwoink players that's what he has to do with his time and he accused me of attacking him , then quickly writes a paragraph about how i'm a manchild and then closes the ticket so i can't respond after his temper tantrum (kinda funny actually) it's just ironic he accused me of attacking him when i literally laid out his tasks as an admin and he actually got upset enough to try to attack me.
Evidence:  Not sure if round ID's go up by 1 after each game but it was the round before 4629 go read the chat logs tell me if i held the CE for 5 minutes if there's actual time stamps Also 'game master' because i'm sure you're reading this, with a low player count as is i don't think attacking your player base like that is gonna help you grow 
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Post by Killing Torcher on May 4, 2019 2:29:03 GMT 1
Thank you for the input. Essentially, you did start to hold him for too long. I was asking you whether you had any additional proof of him being a traitor other than "he was in Captain's quarters and won't answer me why," with the intent of telling you you'd have to let him go if that is the case. Instead, you kept deflecting and avoiding the question, making passive aggressive remarks and generally trying my patience.
You've debated the rules, telling me what admins are supposed to do, and done everything but cooperate in the admin sit. What I said was indeed rude, but by no means uncalled for and I'll gladly say it again if faced with the same situation. We do have a strong policy of admin professionalism, but when it comes down to it takes two to have a civil conversation.
As for not attacking the playerbase, I agree completely. Of course, in cases such as these, we're talking about disruptive individuals. Definitely does not qualify as a playerbase. At least not one we'd be interested in having. I strongly believe in filtering the kinds of people that play our server. Unfortunately, not everyone can be welcome. If you have no intention of cooperating with the administration, or if you've come here only to have fun at the expense of others, thank you but no thank you. We'd prefer you play elsewhere compared to having a slightly higher player count.
You approached me not willing to listen, only willing to preach your side of the story blindly. You narcissistically focused only on your own dissatisfaction at being admin PMed, attempting to zealously evade taking any kind of responsibility for your actions, and as such you've been served an appropriate response.
Have no fear however, your complaint will be handled by someone other than myself. This is merely my response. You're of course welcome to reply (which I trust you will), but I have no intention of continuing this conversation further. The logs will say the rest.
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Post by traitorbotanist on May 4, 2019 3:59:48 GMT 1
Listen , i understand you're trying to play damage control because you look like a jerk here. You think it's okay to insult a player because they are not being co-operative with you, justified because they are a 'disruptive player' ( in your words) because they were trying to fill the security role due to the fact there were none on a low pop server; they DETAINED them with non lethal force for no longer than the time it took to put them on the bed handcuffed, you decide to intervene and immediately escalate the situation and insult this evil disruptive player that doesn't belong on your server.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, let's rewind - i see that someone went into the captains office and we have no captain, i go to investigate and the the CE (who before was talking about killing the warden to some unknown in cargo that had captain id and full security gear) is in the captains office messing with things, what is the appropriate response admin?
Do i..
Ask "what are you doing CE?" and risk him stunning and killing me if he's an antag (which there was probable cause)
or just ignore me and walk out with nuke codes or other valuable captain items (very likely antag or not based on how he acted)
Call for security (there is none)
That's all i can think could've gone down besides detaining and questioning him. He was purposely trying to self antag and rule bait in order to get them in trouble if he was innocent.
I'm not gonna sit here and tell you how to do you're job but i have suggestions, instead of insulting the offender and trying to exile them from your server, explain to them how they could've handled the situation better or how they can currently fix the situation. But i know you won't do that and the reason is simple. It's either kind of like how cops have a 'quota' to hand out tickets, it's not really a 'thing' but if you're not handing out tickets you must not being doing your job right, i'll let you make the correlation there. Or maybe you're an admin and you're bored and want something to do so you harass a player, maybe you're just power tripping, who knows. An offense so minor - in my opinion, doesn't justify you to insult them, whether you think i was passive aggressive or not - i did not blatantly insult you like you did to me.
I really do hope in the future you try to rehabilitate instead of attacking any future people you plan on 'boinking'
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Post by degeneral on May 8, 2019 14:50:59 GMT 1
We talked about this and you were ok with thread being closed since now you have a better understanding of space law and rules but i want to make a few points for anyone reading this in the future. > As non-antag, non-head/sec you can arrest/kidnap people for maximum of 5 minutes unless you are following space law and properly briging the person for their crimes. CEs "crime" is B&E of a Restricted Area which is punished with 5 minute brig time.> tgstation13.org/wiki/Space_law#Brig_Procedures> Admins will often PM players holding/kidnapping other players at 4 minute mark to warn them to release player soon so they dont break rule 1. Logs show you already held CE for 4 minutes when KT messaged you so all you had to do is either give a legit reason why you should hold him for longer or release him since after 5 minutes you would be breaking rule 1 and his brig time is 5 minutes anyways. > "'disruptive player' ( in your words) because they were trying to fill the security role" KT meant you were disruptive in admin PMs beacuse you werent doing or listening to what he told you. This was supposed to be a quick admin PM tip to release the guy unless you have proper evidence he is an antag so you dont break rule 1 and it turned into a 15 minute conversation which is most likely why KT lost his cool. > "...ignore me and walk out with nuke codes or other valuable captain items" If he takes all access or nuke disk and he isnt an acting captain or securing those things since there is no captain you can execute him for grand theft. > "That's all i can think could've gone down besides detaining and questioning him." You are allowed to do that KT PM-d you because you were about to hold him for too long past his brig sentence without any evidence he is an antag except him being in caps office as CE which isnt enough to think he is an antag. > "He was purposely trying to self antag and rule bait in order to get them in trouble if he was innocent." B&E and trespassing is an IC issue so its not "rule bait" or "borderline rulebreak". Breaking space law, breaking into places and stealing stuff isnt "self antag-ing" people can do that as non-antags. Acting "crazy" to kill or just straight out murdering people for no reason is "self antag-ing". > "explain to them how they could've handled the situation better or how they can currently fix the situation." KT did that by warning you you were about to break the rules and you should release the guy unless you have a proper reason to hold him past 5 minutes and his brig time. > "if you're not handing out tickets you must not being doing your job right" Trust me i would love it if people would follow the rules so we dont have to PM them interrupting our gameplay since we play too  > "Or maybe you're an admin and you're bored and want something to do so you harass a player, maybe you're just power tripping, who knows." Well this is clearly not the case since KT had a proper reason to PM you.> "An offense so minor - in my opinion, doesn't justify you to insult them" Yeah that was a minor offense all you had to do is release the guy since "his time was up" and that turned into a 15 minute conversation so i understand why KT lost his cool at the end. > "I really do hope in the future you try to rehabilitate instead of attacking any future people you plan on 'boinking'" We try to do that but admins are humans too we can lose our cool and act a little mean which isnt something we should be doing. - Degeneral |
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